ninayasmijn:

@determamfidd

Both the Sweet and the Bitter was absolutely amazing! You can just see Arwen getting older, how she thinks and what she thinks of herself. In het thoughts you notice her immortality slipping away, I have no idea how to exactly describe it tbh. But the way she sees Legolas, both happy and a storm raging inside him. And Gimli, getting older but his fire never ceases to burn. That’s what I love about your writing, you can read between the lines and find a whole other story, or one that tells more. I loved it! The emotions were portrayed widely and I had to read longer for those to reach me and it was amazing.

AH THANK YOU NINA YOU UTTER SWEETHEART *hugs*

any thoughts on elf sexuality?

one-go-alone:

cptsdcarlosdevil:

ONLY ALL OF THEM

The interested reader should consult What Tolkien Officially Said About Elf Sex, the most extensive guide to elf sexuality I’m aware of. Also, be aware that I haven’t read Silm and anything in here contradicted by Silm is a result of ignorance.

The bits I find interesting are that (1) elf marriage is defined as being sex— the party is considered a good idea, but strictly optional, (2) elves don’t commit adultery and (3) elves can apparently tell from the way someone moves whether they’re wed or unwed. Now, this may just be that elves are Good Catholics, but are you kidding, there is an opportunity for my favorite tropes. I propose: elf hypermonogamy!

(I actually totally thought elf hypermonogamy was canon until I was researching my answer for this ask. GODDAMMIT TOLKIEN.)

Elves are universally demisexual: they literally do not experience sexual attraction to people they aren’t in romantic love with. Elves are only capable of being in love with one person at once. It takes them a long time to get over love; it’s quite common for a rejected elf to never fall in love again, and most of those who do go centuries before they do.

So, how does that affect my favorite ships?

I feel like Legolas/Gimli is super-more-awesome if Legolas was literally never sexually attracted to anyone before Gimli and has no idea what this emotion is. So he is all like OH GOD THIS DWARF IS SO ANNOYING 😡 😡 😡 I JUST WANT TO THINK ABOUT HIM ALL THE TIME. BECAUSE HE’S ANNOYING. I WONDER WHAT HIS HAIR FEELS LIKE. And eventually this gets to the point where even Mr. They’re Taking The Hobbits To Isengard starts wondering if something’s up.

and then at Lothlorien he seeks the advice of Galadriel and Galadriel is like “Legolas, you’re in love” and Legolas is like “???!???!!!!!!”

and Galadriel thinks to herself “JESUS CHRIST, Legolas, Luthien and Arwen are one thing, human boys are sort of cute, but DID YOU REALLY JUST FALL FOR, OF ALL PEOPLE, A FUCKING DWARF”

(and then Gimli does the hair thing and she’s like “well, at least he has good taste”)

and then Legolas ends up having sex with Gimli. Now, dwarves totally have a culture of warrior homosexuality. (Also: everything homosexuality????) So Gimli is all like “ah, yes, manly men blowing off some steam in a manly way after battle, this surely does not mean Feelings” and Legolas is like “:( 😦 😦 I will go stare at a river and write love poetry in Quenya more beautiful than the hearts of Men can bear” but he totally doesn’t let Gimli know because he doesn’t want to Pressure Gimli Into A Relationship and also because he will Take What He Can Get

and then at some point Aragorn is sadly singing to himself about Luthien as is his third-favorite hobby (behind beard growth and still not being king) and Gimli is like “why the hell would she give up her immortality anyway, dude, it’s fucking immortality? why can’t she marry an elf instead” and with one thing and another Aragorn ended up telling him about the Elvish Facts of Life

and then Gimli storms up to Legolas and is like YOU KNOW USUALLY I LIKE TO BE INFORMED WHEN I’M MARRIED TO PEOPLE

and Legolas is like “…I’m… married to you but you’re not married to me?”

and Gimli is like I DON’T KNOW WHAT NANCY SHIT YOU PONCY MOTHERFUCKERS GET UP TO BUT AMONG DWARVES MARRIAGE IS USUALLY CONSIDERED A TRANSITIVE PROPERTY

and Legolas was like “I am sorry, I understand if you will never speak to me again” and he is mentally drafting, like, the world’s saddest poem, like, it will win the Saddest Poem contest Elrond holds every year

and Gimli is like YOU FUCKING MORON OF COURSE I WANT TO BE MARRIED TO YOU HOW ELSE CAN I GET TO SHOW YOU ALL THE PRETTY CAVES

and Legolas is like “oh. Oh!”

and then he ends up smuggling his boyfriend into Valinor, I assume by just sort of shoving him into the luggage. “Dwarf? What dwarf? I don’t have a dwarf. What, no, my bag isn’t wriggling, you’re seeing things. Gosh, there are weird sounds on the sea, that one sounded almost like the word ‘fuck’.”

also I feel like this whole thing makes Elrond and Arwen infinitely more amusing

Elrond: NO YOU ARE NOT GOING TO MARRY ARAGORN
Arwen: GRANDMA DID
Elrond: AND LOOK WHERE THAT GOT HER
Arwen: I DON’T CARE I LOVE HIM
Elrond: THERE ARE LOTS OF NICE BOYS IN VALINOR, I’M SURE YOU’LL FIND SOMEONE ELSE
Arwen: NO I WON’T
Elrond: …fuck. You’re right.
Arwen: (looks smug)
Elrond: you know Elros really had the right idea, immortality is awesome but at least HUMANS HAVE THE CONCEPT OF SERIAL MONOGAMY

This is full of win and awesome, and I would also like to point out that if this appeals to you and you aren’t reading @determamfidd‘s Sansûkh, then do yourself a favor and go read it. Right now. Seriously. Drop everything else.

*blushy blushy* ahhh thank you so very much! You are super kind!

IS YOUR URL A ‘THE DARK IS RISING’ REFERENCE BC HOLY SHIT I LOVED THOSE BOOKS

Aragorn continuing to be 200% done over Eomer and Gimli’s Areen/Galadriel argument. Because they totally keep it up for years, long after they’re both married. Eomer’s wife joins Aragorm for a slightly fed-up eye roll.

“Do we have to?” That was not a very dignified tone coming from the King of the Reunited Kingdom. Arwen sat up in bed and poked his shoulder. 

“They’d be heartbroken to miss out on Eldarion’s 30th birthday, they should be here. And you’d miss them too.”

“But Eomer’s coming,” Aragorn grumbled into his pillow, and Arwen winced. 

“Yes, I know,” she said, sighing. “Another bout of posturing over Grandmother and myself. Just ignore it.”

“Easier said than done,” Aragorn muttered.

“Give me a drink.”

“Hello Lothíriel,” said Aragorn gloomily. “Have they started already?”

“We met them on the road yesterday,” said the Princess of Dol Amroth, snatching the glass from his hand and pouring herself a generous measure. “I like them well enough, but really-!”

As she took a large gulp, voices could be heard in the courtyard, jocular and teasing.

“…go for my axe, I should show you, you thickheaded wheatfield -”

“…reach my neck, shorty! Can you even see their faces well enough to make a judgement?…”

“You find beauty in a horse’s rump! As though you’ve any taste at all!”

Lothíriel pinched the bridge of her nose.

Aragorn patted her shoulder. “Have another one. It helps,” he advised.

Legolas looked miffed when he returned to their room. 

“Love, are you well?” Gimli asked, frowning. It wasn’t all that pleasant to be so much closer to the sea, after all…

Legolas’ nostrils flared. Then he pushed Gimli back onto the bed and fixed him with an unnerving Elven stare. “Do I have to remind you again,” he said dangerously, “which Elf to give your compliments to?”

Gimli blinked.

Then he innocently tipped his head. “Perhaps you ought to jog my memory, eh?”

Legolas growled at him, before proceeding to do exactly that.

(Much, much later:) 

“Obstinate Dwarf,” Legolas said, sleepy and sated.

Gimli grinned into the dark. Works every time.

Now I’m having a persistent mental image of Leglas and Arwen commiserating over the annoyances of moving gracefully with beard-burnt thighs. Damn those attractive quick-tongued husbands.

Arwen: “Well, it’s not such a problem for me, of course…”

Legolas: “What? I would have thought it… worse. You know. Because his beard is shorter. More… bristly.”

Arwen: “Ah, but! The hands of a King are the hands of a healer, remember?”

Legolas: “… I don’t think that’s what Ioreth had in mind when she said that.”

ink-splotch:

There was a story that told of saving the world. Arwen Undomiel was mentioned only twice within its pages. 

Her story was an appendix because love stories have no place in epic quests.

Who said this was a love story? (Who said a love story was not an epic quest?)

Arwen stayed for Aragorn as much as Aragorn saved the world for her—entirely and not at all. Her story was a battle, a bravery, a hero’s sacrifice, clinging as hard to the things that mattered as Frodo clung to the fading memories of the Shire.

She ruled the Reunited Kingdom. She rebuilt the world. 

Arwen had heard the story of Luthien Tinuviel all her life. She had heard the name whispered, awestruck, in regards to her beauty. When she looked in the mirror, she saw only her father’s brow, her mother’s forgotten smile. She did not want to be Luthien’s ghost.

Arwen did not want pity to be her power. Luthien, an eleven beauty who had fallen in love with a mortal man, had sung a song so sad a great power had mourned with her and brought her beloved back to life. Arwen did not want pity. Arwen wanted the breath in her lungs, her mare’s mane in her hands, something to build with her hands. She wanted to leave things on this earth.

Impermanent things, maybe; just memories in mortal minds, sown fields, walls that would crumble in a thousand years. But for now, she was a thing remembered. For now, the crops were rolling into the market of Minas Tirith in glorious riots of color. For now, the walls stood strong around her city and her people were safe.

These walls would not outlast her father’s life, her mother’s soul lingering on the shores of Valinor. But they would matter while they stood. They would protect the people within them, break the gales of the wide plains, and that was enough for her.

One of the first gifts Elrond had ever given her was a horse. Constancy, patience, respect for life, he had explained to her, were important to learn. Arwen cleaned its stall and combed it, fed it carrots she’d only have to clean up again the next morning. She dragged herself out of bed in the cold dawns, a gangling youth not yet grown into herself, and groaned aloud when no one could hear her. She wrapped her arms around the mare’s neck, buried her face in its mane, and the cold was still in her. But her horse nickered in her ear and she laughed aloud. The mornings were never not cold, but she got up anyway.

Her father gave her gifts, books, horses, and sunlit rooms. Elrond was desperate to keep her, this best part of him, this beauty. He was not quite a beast, this fair lord of fairer halls, but he had seen so much darkness in his life. Here, finally, was light.

Elrond’s greatest gift, she never accepted. Elrond had an eternity of life and peace in the palms of his hands, a ship to take her West. Arwen saddled her horse. Her father rode with her to Gondor and in that high white city, she left him forever.

Arwen was the youngest of three. Her brothers were twins, warriors, accomplices. Her brothers had fought beside Aragorn’s father and watched him die.

When they told her about it, drew her aside on an empty clearing to seek her comfort and her council, she saw the son hiding. Arwen noted his eyes in the bushes where hobbits would hide years later to eavesdrop on a council—she would see them, too, then, from her place at Elrond’s elbow. (She was wrapped in cotton all her life, loved as elves are loved, as beauty is loved, without touching. She would not wish the same on anyone. All the same, when the young hobbits charged forward to volunteer, she felt something rise up in her chest: maybe a preparation for grief).

Arwen was beautiful then, too, but the young Aragorn only had eyes for her brothers’ words. Their first true meeting would be decades later. He would be struck down by her grace. She would be curious about the stories written even then into the lines on his face.

But for now, she was an elf maiden. She was a sister standing with brothers who understood missing mothers who had sailed to fairer shores but not mourning them. She was a child of many centuries who could not understand the depths of grief in the boy crying in the bushes.

Arwen went up to one of her father’s libraries, after. She did not feel wise. Even with all her centuries fluttering behind her, she felt small against the idea that a man was gone from all earth and sky. All creatures had their sacred places, except for men. If human souls had a place to go when they passed through the veil of death, no one knew its name.

Evening fell on Rivendell as a young Arwen walked the shelves looking for dusty curiosities. She wanted stories of mortals, mortal ballads written down by a shaky dying hand. What was it, to be dying? How could you live in a shell that was perishing? Her soul would be reembodied, reblessed, put into an Arwen remade. But the soldiers her brothers fought beside, the mothers in the books she piled at her bedside, the orphan heroes and the brave, quirky sidekicks, the quarreling lovers, the villains—these were impermanent beings. Their end was no choice, no path to something greater and known.

She sent out orders to a bookseller in the closest town of men. She read their stories on early mornings, curled up in the stable with the many-times-removed great-granddaughter of her first mare. She inhaled their incomprehensible griefs and wondered at their joys.

For elves, age meant weariness. Her father was a good soul and a glorious example of the jaded ancient. Too much folly and malice had passed before him. But what about the way my horse lifts her head when she hears my footfall? Arwen wanted to ask him, centuries old and child still. What about the skeletons of my brothers’ clumsy old tree forts out in the hills? What about the way your people look at you, the way they sing and wander? What about the way I look at you, Father?

Her brothers were not the first twins of her family. Her father, too, had a brother once. Elrond had chosen the life of an elf. His twin had chosen the gift of men and Elrond had gotten to watch his brother die.

Arwen was told this by a gossipy Silvan elf sometime before her second century. She watched the way her father watched her brothers play. When he spoke to her of choice, begged her to take the ships west, she understood. She did not make the choice he wanted, but she understood. She liked to think that, by the end, when he left her side in a high white courtyard in Minas Tirith, he understood her, too.

Aragorn liked to sing the lay of Luthien, called Tinuviel, called Nightingale, mortal lover and unearthly beauty. Arwen liked his voice, but one day she started listening to the words. It was a story about a beautiful maiden who had died for love. That was the story they told about Arwen, too. As she grew older, she realized Luthien’s was just as much of a lie.

This was not a story about love or about death, not in the end, not the part that mattered. It was a story about choosing the life you wanted to live and hanging onto that, against all perils, all harms. Arwen wrapped her hands around Aragorn’s, the sword calluses on one, the ink stains on the other, her Ranger, her soldier, her king and her friend. She held on tight, kissed his brow, and thought about the rebuilding of the north wall.

Arwen and Luthien both had been asked to choose between peace and creation; eternal light, or lighting the flame themselves. They were Prometheus, the titan descended to earth. Every death they pulled out of Arwen was worth it for the things she got to build.

Arwen had always been able to tell her brothers apart. Grey-eyed and bold, Elladan and Elrohir always knew where she had wandered off to, even when her father was at a loss.

They made little tree forts in the hills of Rivendell, as children. Arwen with her wild hair, her brothers’ quick sly shared glances, the way they pulled her lovely, knobbly knees out of scrapes. They huddled in little forts that lacked the elegance that would come with a few more centuries, and talked about death.

They had a choice, all three of them: to live as an elf and sail west in the end; to live as a man and die forever.

Her brothers watched their little sister, the best part of them, looking for consensus in her eyes. She was precious, the person they most wanted to protect, but she was also their guiding star. They drifted in her wake, into cookie raids on the kitchens or playacting on the roof.

There was a third way to leave these shores. There was a third choice here. Elladan was the one who said it. “Maybe I will die as an elf,” said Elladan. “There is honor in that.”

His twin scoffed. “You spend too much time with men.”

Arwen wrapped her arms around her slender torso.

(She would die as herself. Aragorn would die as a king, as a father, surrounded by his family, as a lover and a Ranger of the North. He was Strider, for all he had forsaken his tattered cloak. She was Elrond’s daughter, for all she had forsaken so much of his heritage).

Elrohir, the younger twin, died as an elf, fighting a man’s war. He and his brother had not taken the ship with Elrond, instead lingering to mind Rivendell and help Gondor’s new king retake his own in the North.

His brother, who had once said there was honor in that death, rode home to Rivendell. Arwen met him there, new laughlines at the corners of her eyes, new wrinkles at her mouth to hold her griefs. They climbed up to an old skeleton of a tree fort and huddled close.

Elladan was still unblemished. He held her hand and traced her wrinkles. He traveled west, slowly, taking a long last glimpse at the land he had fought for. Arwen went with him. This was her land, too, now.

They stood for a long time on the dock, her head on his chest, his chin on her head. Elladan sailed west, to see if he could find his brother on those fairer, farther shores.

Arwen watched the ship fade. The last child of Rivendell left the shore, got her horse, and went home.

Gondor’s king was a Ranger from the North, its queen a fallen elf maiden who looked more like a legend than a lady. Faramir, the steward, was young and loyal, had spent his childhood pattering over the walls in a too-big uniform, but his wife was a stranger from Rohan. Gondor was accustomed to war. In the echoes of this strange new peace they waited, hesitant, wary.

Arwen could have walked among their ancestors millennia removed. At first she tried to explain to them that a millennia in the same two woodland groves did not lend to wisdom and growth as much as they seemed to think. Her maid stared, holding out her overcoat. The footman stood with a stiff professionalism that belied the ways she could hear his heart beating.

She stopped trying to explain. These men and women had lived shorter years than the older saplings in the courtyard her rooms opened onto. She had no right to belittle their lives’ brevity with a careless wave of her hand, just because she was tired of their awe.

She started walking the walls. She walked the streets and asked questions, sometimes more than once if they only gaped. She listened to stammering women and yammering children with the patience of thousands of winters in her newly mortal bones. They had things to teach her. She had seen so many more comets than them. They had spent so many more nights living lives that would come to an end.

Her bones ached, on cold nights. Aragorn made her laugh, with stories of hobbits; Eowyn with her sharp dry wit; her maid with stories of the young lovers she boarded with; the antics of her children left Arwen nearly breathless with amusement, some days. When she looked in the mirror, there were wrinkles at the corners of her eyes. They crinkled further, deeper, when she smiled. She smiled. This was her life, written out in the crease of her skin.

Arwen and Eowyn would go out on long rides, the queen and the stewardess, and talk about mothers who faded, mothers who withered. Eowyn had turned herself to steel, a sharp-eyed swordmaiden who would bow to no one who had not earned it in blood. Arwen had buried her roots in the earth. She was tied down now, corporeal, solid, dying. Eowyn knew something of death.

They went out riding, these two women to whom the wind in their hair meant such different things. They went out riding, these two strangers in a kingdom not their own, and they sang each other songs in the tongues of their distant kin.

Arwen thought Eowyn very young when she first met her, this new wife of a young steward. Aragorn had thought so, too, of this feisty young horsewoman and her naïve thirst for battle. But Eowyn had seen her war, been bloodied before she ever stepped onto a battlefield. They were both wrong about her.

Eowyn was a wounded soldier. She was a grieving daughter, three times over. She had death in her veins in a way Arwen could not even imagine. Her hands were cold and she and Faramir built something beautiful in Gondor. They grew things in shadows that had not seen the light for years. Eowyn was a healer who was sword-steel at her core; Faramir was a warrior with sunlight in his wounded veins. Arwen had never heard anyone laugh about death the way those two did, so she listened, to their respect and their fury. She never quite understood their humor.

They called Eowyn’s story a love story—spurned love for Aragorn, a quiet reward in Faramir. They called Arwen’s story a love story, a bittersweet sacrifice to inspire the king to save the world. But Eowyn’s was a war story, pitched battles against the things that hemmed her in, against Nazgul, against her own darkness. She did not pick up the pieces afterwards so much as bury them into her soul and reclaim them.

Arwen’s story was this: she made a choice.

Arwen and Luthien had both been children standing in the twilight of their people. Their stories were framed around their beauty, their love, their selflessness, and they were lies. Luthien Tinuviel was a sorceress who embarked on a quest to claim her life for her own. It was about what she wanted, not about her selflessness.

They called Luthien Nightingale and they called Arwen the Evening Star, blessed creatures of a fading light. They called them beautiful. They forgot to call them powerful. They forgot that claiming a life against all others’ wishes, even a dying life, even for love, was a defiance.

The elves who sailed west called them fading, these two women who grasped the things they wanted and dared even up to the teeth of death to claim them. The elves sailed west to fairer, undying shores, and dared to name these women for a darkening twilight, to call them fading.

Arwen was too busy to fade, handling poor harvests and wounded veterans, negotiating with grumpy nobles and diplomats. She taught her children to care for their horses themselves, to speak three languages, and to build tree forts in the gardens. She wrote down elf herblore and old legends and put them up in the library archives. She did not fade. She aged. She sunk her roots down deep and touched the brief lives around her.

Arwen woke on grey mornings to squeals of laughter as her children snuck into the royal chambers and tackled their dozing father. She watched the men of Gondor rebuild their high white walls, taught them elves’ tricks with coaxing stone and learned from them in turn.

This was not a twilight. This was dawn. She stood on the battlements, the golden fields of her kingdom stretching out to high mountains. She could see the barest specks of a shepherd and his flock, hear the city waking to a dull murmuring roar behind her. Aragorn was warm at her back.

This was dawn.

One day, Arwen would die while her father, mother, and so many of her beloved kin lived on. They would grieve her. (They grieved her already). They would string up songs to her in the sunlight, toss stones carved with her name into the frothy waves. All elves go back to the sea in the end.

One day, Arwen would die. When she did, when she stepped through that veil into whatever lay beyond, she expected Luthien to be waiting. They would clasp hands and laugh, these two children named for fading twilight, these two women who had chosen a different life. 

And if there was nothing beyond that veil, Arwen would go without regrets all the same.

There was no value in death, but there were things worth dying for. One of them was living.

Companion to this piece