Tag: dark names

What exactly is the ‘dark name’ thing?

Okay, here is the inspiration, from Appendix F of LOTR:

But in the Third Age close friendship still was found in many places between Men and Dwarves; and it was according to the nature of the Dwarves that, travelling and labouring and trading about the lands, as they did after the destruction of their ancient mansions, they should use the languages of men among whom they dwelt. Yet in secret (a secret which unlike the Elves, they did not willingly unlock, even to their friends) they used their own strange tongue, changed little by the years; for it had become a tongue of lore rather than a cradle-speech, and they tended it and guarded it as a treasure of the past. Few of other race have succeeded in learning it. In this history it appears only in such place-names as Gimli revealed to his companions; and in the battle-cry which he uttered in the siege of the Hornburg. That at least was not secret, and had been heard on many a field since the world was young. “Baruk ’!Khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!” – ‘Axes of the Dwarves! The Dwarves are upon you!” Gimli’s own name, however, and the names of all his kin, are of Northern (Mannish) origin. Their own secret and ‘inner’ names, their true names, the Dwarves have never revealed to any one of alien race. Not even on their tombs do they inscribe them.

So, I am sure I have mentioned that I have no self-restraint a love of extreme detail! I went with this concept to the absolute limit. If we assume that Mahal makes each Dwarf personally and with utter love, I thought that perhaps instead of Dwarves naming their children twice – once with an ‘outer’ name, and once with a ‘secret and sacred’ name, it wasn’t beyond the realms of possibility that Mahal himself had given the Dwarf their sacred name. Mahal would have written it into their very bones, sent it swirling through their blood.

I went a bit further. That sacred name would be the whole and soul of a Dwarf – the very essence of their best self. It would be inextricably linked to a Dwarf’s very personality. (i.e. Gimli’s dark-name is Sansûkhâl [One who sees with perfect/pure sight], which refers to many things. His bluntness, his role in defeating darkness, his overcoming institutionalised racism, his perception of Elves, Dwarves and Men, his caring and comforting nature.)

Aaaaaand a bit further yet. If they are sacred names, then I reasoned that it was likely that Dwarves only shared such names with close kin. Also – they would customarily be shared only under stone, because Khuzdul itself is not to be used in outer lands amongst other peoples. Therefore – “Deep name” or “dark-name.”

And so, the ‘outer name’ (i.e. Gimli) would also be known as a ‘sky-name’ – to be used in the open air.

All this dark names business is really hurting a lot *gathers up shards of my heart* it just seems to me to be such a charged thing, filled with implications and fraught with danger too… on one hand it’s dazzling, intimate and pure, yet on the other it’s surely quite a source of contention and doubt? for every person who feels blessed about being told, there’s another who /hasn’t/ been told–and all that that means. even if one may love another truly, it must still hurt, disappoint, devastate.

Hmmmm. I think it IS fraught, yeah. Any time you have the whole ‘secret names’ thing, it’s going to be fraught. *hugs the Nonnie* Sorry.

But I don’t think it’s meant to evoke jealousy. I think the whole concept would be surrounded by such a culture of respect that to be given one is to be given a HUGE gift. If your partner received your child’s dark-name, for instance, you would celebrate that. That means that your child found perfect trust with them. That means that your partner has been given a wonderful and dangerous gift. And it in no way takes away from the magic and danger of your own name, or implies that your child might not ever share their name with you.

To be envious of someone receiving such a name would mean that you value less your own, or those that have shared theirs with you. I’m probably not explaining it well, idk, but I feel that to be envious of a special moment between people you love would be very frowned upon, generally. That isn’t to say that there wouldn’t be some who get upset. But it would be viewed as mean-spirited, covetous and petty, or worse, controlling.

These things about Nori are KILLING ME OH GOD He’s one of my very favorites, I love Nori so much (in fact I am a giant Nwalin shipper so I keep having to resolutely remind myself while reading that that’s just-not gonna happen in this fic. But you made me love Orla and the little ones so much, I don’t even mind. Still sometimes I wish they could interact just once or – be friends or sth but NO Dwalin LIVES FOREVER) anyway, ‘NORI!!’ is what i basically wanted to express&thx for Sansukh, it’s rad!

Awww, thank you Nonnie! I’m thrilled you’re enjoying it – and hey, Nori IS safe now. He’ll learn to trust eventually. Ori is there, Ori will help him. Ri Brothers stick together. 

(Yeah, I have quite a few people making ლ(ಠ_ಠლ) faces at me for not including particular ships. Sorry! But I am very glad you love Orla and the sprogs!)

is sauron able to get some power over the dead dwarves when he uses their dark names?

Absolutely. It’s naming the very soul of them, the deepest, most intimate core of who they are. 

Sauron using their dark-name is a brutal and horrible display of power, of violation. That’s why they are so shaken: that name is to be used with love and respect and care. The Dwarves would only ever expect to hear it from one they love. One they trust. 

Sauron is using those connotations in the most vile manner possible. He is abusing that expectation of trust.

In light of all this Dark Name talk, about thorin over hearing (and then using) Gimli’s Dark Name would be kinda on the skeevy lines??? Like the same ilk of him reading bilbo’s book??? Like, he’s dead and he’s thorin what else is he gonna do but it’s also sooorrttaa Not Done??? Or am I miss reading that scene? Idk basically: what do??? (Btw I love love love all the writing stuffs you do it great :)

Hey Nonnie! Aw, thanks! Glad you’re enjoying!

Yes, it’s a bit – uh, well. The moment between Gloin and Gimli in Rivendell was intensely private. It was a special moment, a reaffirmation of self, before Gloin sent his son away to save the world. 

Thorin overhearing that is a little bit. Well.

Still, he’s dead. It’s not as though he ever thought he would get the chance to speak to Gimli at all, and be known as himself and not as a passing thought in Gimli’s subconscious. He never thought he would get the chance to hear that name from Gimli’s own lips. He thought his affection for Gimli would forever be one-sided, and so was eager for any scraps of Gimli’s life that he could have. 

Thorin using it, though (and above stone! In the open air!!) – that was a bit of a low blow. Naughty Thorin. 

Hey Dets, I was wondering about Dark Names, do parents tell their children their own names? And is it a cultural norm that if somebody tells you theirs you should give them yours? Thank you, have a lovely day

Oooooh, sometimes I think parents would share their Dark-names with their children. I don’t think there would be a hard-and-fast rule, though.

Both Fris and Thrain told theirs to their children – all of them.

Gloin whispered his to Gimli, pressing the words into Gimli’s bright, soft hair, during a sudden upwelling of love when Gimli was little more than a toddler. He had a hell of a time for the next few days, because all Gimli wanted to do was use it. He was a little more circumspect with Gimris, as a result, and told her when she was around 17. It is the first and only time Gloin has ever seen his daughter burst into big blobby tears.

Bofur gave his to Gimizh when he was 19. Gimizh couldn’t pronounce it properly, thanks to a gap in his teeth. Bofur laughed and cried for the next few hours as he painstakingly taught his madcap little lad to say it properly: that clumsy dear little mouth forming the soul of him over and over and over in that piping voice.

Hrera made it rather official, like a coming-of-age talk or the like. She sat Thrain down before Thror and herself in their sitting rooms, and told him her dark-name as matter-of-factly as she possibly could. She wasn’t prepared for Thrain to immediately blurt out his own, and had to pour herself a little cup of something to steady her nerves.

Gimris hasn’t given hers to Gimizh yet. She did, however, give hers to her mother when she was young. Mizim pressed their foreheads together, and breathed her own kherumel back. Mother and daughter simply sat there and breathed in the whole truth of each other.

Dwalin and Orla give theirs to their children each in their turn, upon their 20th nameday. They decided on that together, long ago – after a clandestine conversation with Gloin.

Bomfris gave hers to a raven. Because Tuac was her best friend and she was lonely. She desperately wanted to matter the most to somebody. Not to be lost in the crowd, outshone by her father and brother and sister. Tuac has been Bomfris’ shadow, ever since.

Frerin and Thorin exchanged their dark-names the night the dragon decimated Erebor. If they didn’t make it, they reasoned, at least their brother would remember the whole and soul of them.