Tag: melkor

depressing quesiton – does every dwarf make it mahal’s hall? what happens to the ones that don’t?

idk, Nonnie. I’ve mentioned before that Mahal re-embodies his Dwarves in the Halls (there are a few answered asks regarding that, actually, if you check my ‘dwarves’ tag or ‘headcanony things’ tag). It’s a bit of a system, tbh, the way it has worked out. I’ll break it down, step by step, and see if that sparks any ideas…

Dwarf – Made by Mahal

Dwarf – Dies, is sent to Mandos’ Halls.

(canon bit: we know that the Dwarves believe that their halls of waiting, whilst still a part of Mandos’ domain, are set aside from other people’s halls. There they are looked after by Mahal until Dagor Dagorath, whoop)

Dwarf – in Halls, is re-made by Mahal in their eternal body (this guy takes a warranty seriously)

Previously, I have mused that perhaps those Dwarves who are truly awful souls, who are corrupted beyond help and are truly irredeemable, would not have been re-made by Mahal. Not sure where their fea goes. Perhaps Morgoth in Space has an Evil Dwarf Army, beyond the Door of Night? 

So what if the orcs we see as being leaders were actually high elves/elves that were old or especially wise, and were taken by Morgoth or Sauron for this purpose? I mean, there are many elves that are presumed dead, or with all the battles could have been spirited away. (pointedly doesn’t look at Maglor here)

LOTS of elves, yeah! Tolkien does mention specifically in the Silm that Melkor nicked the Elves who ran away when

Oromë invited everybody to the party in Valinor. So, they would have been of the Avari mostly, I guess. 

There’s a hint in Morgoth’s Ring (THOME) that some leaders amongst the Orcs were in fact Maiar who had chosen Orc-form rather than Man-shape like Gandalf and his pals. The Great Goblin is suggested to be one of these (!!). 

But there’s nothing to suggest that Elves of other clans/families might not have been stolen later on, too! idk, I really have no idea on this particular issue. I was just trying to answer the question as best I could 🙂

(the idea of an Orc whose eyes glitter with a strange light sometimes, whose fingers ache for harp-strings instead of the hilt of his wicked sword, who is ever-driven by a terrible unending compulsion – as though words spoken long ago are whipping at his heels –  is a very very heartbreaking one, Nonnie. Ouch.)

Is it possible that before Dagor Dagorath there was a great need of new Orcs and Goblins so the enemy captured elves and, as in days of old, tortured and twisted them until they became what he needed them to be? Is that even how Orcs are made or did I miss something big? (I’m jut asking out of curiosity and not because I’m planning a mega sad Arda remade fic, nope, not at all *shoves notes under a desk while whistling*)

Hey Nonnie!

I suppose it is possible! However, here’s a thought I had: Dagor Dagorath itself is meant to be the return of Melkor from beyond ‘the door of night’ which frankly makes me think of one of those old lavvy doors with the crescent moon cut into it 

sooooo, because all of his servants/cronies/hangers-on are p much defeated long before Melkor returns, I am not sure who it would be who was nicking Elves and twisting them. It would take a long long time to corrupt an Elf sufficiently enough to call them an Orc, I expect. And I don’t know that the newly-returned Melkor would have leisure, what with the whole Ragnarok business.

There’s also the notion that by Dagor Dagorath, all the Elves would have sailed for Aman (or dwindled and disappeared) and so would be under the Valar’s far more direct protection…? Eh. 

IDK, those are only some ideas, and no doubt there is more to consider that I can’t think of rn and dun wanna research (I am being tired and grumbly tonight, don’t mind me). Still – don’t let anything I have blabbed about stop you! WRITE THAT DAGOR DAGORATH ANGST FIC, ALL THE ELVES-TO-ORCS, ALL THE TEARS, YESSSS, TO HECK WITH IT. 

my kingdom for Morgoth being in the loo all that time, hahahaha