I still maintain that anyone who argues whether Frodo or Sam was the “true hero” of the story is entirely missing the point of the whole book
like honestly LOTR is about teamwork and the idea that no one is an island
No part of the quest would have worked without everyone doing their part. that’s a major point about Gollum. Gandalf says, “My heart tells me that he has some part to play yet, for good or ill, before the end; and when that comes, the pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many – yours not least.”
and this quote from Sauron Defeated, which if you’re not familiar is from the Histories (in this case essentially a draft):
“There’s never only one hero in any true tale, Sam, and all the good folk are in others’ debt. But if one had to choose one and only, I’d choose Samwise.” “Then you’d be wrong, Mr. Frodo,” said Sam. “For without you I’m nothing. But you and me together, Mr. Frodo: well, that’s more than either alone.”
that didn’t make it into the final draft, but that’s still it. “And Frodo wouldn’t have got far without Sam, would he, dad?” No he wouldn’t have, and without Frodo there’d have been nobody to carry the Ring, and without the rest of the Company Frodo couldn’t have got as far as he did nor could Sam have, and without Elrond…well, you get the picture. Everything that happens in the Lord of the Rings is a team effort.
There isn’t one single hero because you don’t save the world by yourself, as a Hero, you do it with other people because nobody can do that by themselves. There’s too much. We need each other, and that’s important.
when ppl write pepper / rhodey / steve / anYONE ELSE IN HIS LIFE having to ‘’’’’’’’’put up with’’’’’’’’’’ and ‘’’’’’’’suffer thru’’’’’’ being around tony like r u fucking kidding me tony stark may be a mess (and constantly heart attack inducing what w/ all the frequent near death experiences) but he iS ONE OF THE GODDAMN BEST PEOPLE YOU COULD BE FRIENDS WITH. he’s generous to a fault, WOULD NOT HESITATE to give you his house or fortune or the clothes off his back if he thought it would make you happy.
cap or anyone else might be the one person you want with you when you’re at your best but tony stark is the guy you want beside you when you’re at your worst. because he is supportive, because he is empathetic, because he would never judge you for what you had done or where you had been.
tony stark would diE for his friends but on a regular basis ????? he’s affectionate af, he has pet names for everyone bc he wants u to kno how much he loves you, always. he goes out of his way to remember your favorite things and all the insignificant details abt ur life or ur crush you didn’t think anyone paid attention to. he does things, he gives ppl things, not because he’s showing off but bc he can and he wants to make his friends happy. like god i’m so sick of this headcanon can we pls fkcn let it die
Okay sorry but the real Thorin, the real Thorin, he’s the Thorin who drops his weapons and motions for his kin to follow in order to save Bilbo’s limbs from the trolls. Thorin who would suffer the uncertainty (and the indignity) of being captured, being trussed up in a sack, and his companions put on a rotating spit – all because he couldn’t let the trolls rip Bilbo apart.
Now I’m not saying this is an especially Bagginshield moment, I’m saying this is a reflection of the soul Thorin has. He would sacrifice himself, his own kin and family, rather than give an order that would bring about definite harm to another.
Really, whether this is a flaw in his character or not is up to you to decide, but Thorin weighs life as invaluable.
All of which makes dragonsick!Thorin all the more painful. Thorin who would see his family’s life paid in return for gold, who’d throw Bilbo from the ramparts, who would choose to put his friends and family at almost certain death – not to save a life, but to hoard some gold.
That’s not Thorin. That’s the sort of dwarf Thorin fears becoming – and that’s the real tragedy to the dragonsickness. It turns him into his worst nightmare, and makes him the complete opposite to how he actually is.
ok so i was mulling over this tired argument of “thorin doesn’t bring anything to the relationship” (which is probably coming from the fact that bilbo is indeed the only self-sufficient and non-problematic member of the company, that he proves to be much more capable than expected in dealing with other people’s problems and doesn’t seem to have any problems himself, but seeing as thorin employed him it was kinda obvious that he would offer services and not expect help in return, what with being promised the 14th share of the treasure (which he also didn’t need but still))
and i got thinking about how bilbo actually ran off to take part in the quest that would most likely end up with him being incinerated (here on a side note we could say that HIS was the original suicide mission), which can only indicate how miserable he had actually been in his old world and how happy being needed and having someone to fuss over made him;
and also about the fact that he ran so quickly not because he enjoyed dwalin eating his biscuits or balin accepting his apologies, kili wiping his feet on his furniture or fili dumping a pile of swords in his hands, ori holding on to his tomatoes or bombur ridding him of cheese (although maybe the plate-throwing camaraderie had
charmed
him somewhat)
he changed his mind after hearing thorin and the others sing, feeling his longing, catching a spark of his flame, seeing very uncomfortable dreams. in the broadest sense, cheesy though as it might sound, thorin made bilbo feel alive and wanting for the first time in years, and then i thought “manic pixie dream dwarf” and i haven’t been able to stop laughing ever since
Thorin as a manic pixie dream dwarf just made my friggin’ day
Okay. So I’ve seen lots of people saying that Alfrid’s presence in the movie was “unnecessary”. Before I start talking about what I think of Alfrid’s character and why I think he is actually really, really important to how the audience is supposed to view Thorin Oakenshield, I want to thank Vee (tortoisesoul) for pointing this out to me as we were driving home from the movie last night.
Ok but I feel like this guy knew him and I want that story
Need to know the relationship between Finn, this stormtrooper, and the one that died in Finn’s arms.
I already read a fic that gave the dying trooper designation FN-2003. I need some fanon to fill in the gaps.
I think Finn made friends fast, boy had like six people shouting traitor at different points of the movie.
FN2187 was popular and his defection pierced the hearts of the entire fn troop
YOOOOOOOO I HAVE THE CANONICAL ANSWER FOR THIS AND I’M SEEING ALL THESE TR-8R POSTS I CANNOT STAY SILENT.
Greg Rucka’s Star Wars novel Before the Awakening is A) Quite good and B) Explains much about Finn’s stormtrooper training and social circle leading up to the movie.
In a nutshell:
Finn was trained in a squad of four boys: Him (FN-2187), Nines, Zero and Slip.
Nines and Zero have nicknames based on their alphanumerical designations (Zero’s is FN-2003, likely used by the ficcer mentioned above, Nines ended in 9s, etc.). Slip was called slip because he was a fuckup.
Turns out, most troopers have nicknames
Why does FN-2187 not have a nickname? Because nobody really likes him. An older trooper tells him straight to his face: he’s an outsider. It just happens to some troopers.
Why is this extra tragic? Is it because Finn’s a shitty trooper? NO. He’s actually top of his little trooper class. He’s the fucking bomb, with a blaster, with tactics, with hand-to-hand weapons. Phasma’s got extremely high expectations for him. (what a fuckin mary sue amirite)
So why is this actually extra tragic? What’s Phasma’s one problem with him? Finn cares too much. He cares about keeping his squad alive.
He cares about going back for his friends more than the mission objective SOUND FAMILIAR?
So Phasma tells him to stop coddling Slip or face consequences. He does.
And then: the skirmish on Jakku. A trooper dies and Finn loses his final shred of faith in the First Order. Who is that trooper? PROBABLY SLIP, IT REALLY SEEMS LIKE. Basically Finn’s brother, even if he never really fit in with his squad.
And then: the first thing Poe does is give him a nickname based on his alphanumerical designation JUST LIKE HIS TROOPER FAMILY, NINES AND ZERO AND SLIP, WHO NEVER LIKED HIM ENOUGH TO GIVE HIM ONE.
IN CONCLUSION the trooper in the gifset above who recognizes Finn on sight (and who has been meme-nicknamed TR-8R) is likely Zero or Nines.
!!!! I wholeheartedly agree, Thorin does have PTSD. (I think @yubiwamonogatari wrote some about this while i was on my tumblr hiatus and i bet her opinions on the subject are very real and true.)
Even without “evidence” in the films, it’s very easy to reason that Thorin would have PTSD. Look at the traumatic life experiences he’s been through – the dragon attacks and takes Erebor when Thorin is only (i believe) 24 years old, which is practically childhood for Dwarves. Thorin fights in the bloodiest battle in Dwarven history when he’s in his early 50′s, loses his younger brother, his father, and his grandfather/king all in one day, and has to shoulder the burden of leading his people when he’s still so very young, barely of age to do so. And that’s only what we know about. These traumatic experiences are going to alter him and stay with him and change him, and he’s going to struggle to overcome negative feelings and fear for a long time.
I just got a rather awful anon ask from someone who says they have just gone through my blog and that I am ‘deluded and pathetic’ for a) shipping Gigolas, and b) liking the Iron Hills Dwarves, who are all racists and greedy.
As I have already said a hell of a lot about WHY I ship Gigolas (hahaha is 70 pages enough do you suppose) I am not even gonna go there. Ship-shaming is weak and stupid. As to the rest…well, rather than inflicting this negativity and nastiness upon all you nice people, I decided to simply block the troll, and then do something positive instead!
So, here it is –
SIX (ABRIDGED) REASONS WHY I LOVE THE IRON HILLS DWARVES
1. They are a settlement of refugees.
Right well, the Iron Hills have been mined by the Longbeards for centuries, but in actual fact the current settlement in the Iron Hills isn’t all that old. It was established in 2589 by the refugees of the Grey Mountains, who were fleeing a dragon (an ice-worm). They were led by Gror, Thror’s younger brother.
(incidentally, the Dwarves of the Grey Mountains were themselves refugees, having fled to that place after Moria fell. And some significant part of Moria’s population were also refugees from the Broadbeam and Firebeard cities! SO MANY DIFFERENT CULTURES ALL SMOOSHED TOGETHER, SO MANY TIMES THE DWARVES HAD TO FLEE)
So at the exact same time when Thror went to re-establish Erebor (2589), his little bro was setting up shop (with the majority of the refugees) in the much MUCH poorer Iron Hills.
After Smaug came to Erebor (2770), most of the survivors pour into the Iron Hills. Yes, they take the refugees in. We can only speculate as to why a small number of noble Dwarves wanted to move on to the Blue Mountains (pride, maybe?).
2. They keep going to the aid of others
Not even one generation passes before Thror is calling for them to uproot themselves and come to Khazad-dum (2799). They’re expected to throw their lives away after they’ve found some small measure of stability, all for a dangerous and orc- (and balrog, but nobody knew that at the time) infested place.
They turn the tide of the War of Orcs and Dwarves. No really, they do. They die by the thousands (HALF the Dwarves died in that war!), they lose their leader, Gror’s son Nain, who is slaughtered on the steps of Khazad-dum. His son, the APPALLINGLY young Dain Ironfoot (32 years old) sees it all happen with his own eyes.
The survivors limp back home once again. Maybe this time they’ll get to stay.
Then in 2941 Thorin calls for aid at Erebor via raven, and off they go again.
3. They are not wealthy.
Though the Hills are rich in Iron (and they stand at the natural junction for trade-routes between Rhun and the West), the Iron Hills never became as insanely, ridiculously, fabulously rich as their noble cousins. They’re miners first and foremost, and they seem to just stay out of drama and keep their heads down until some bugger calls them out to die (again).
4. They’re sensible.
In the books, Thorin never petitions the Iron Hills to help him retake Erebor before the Quest. The first they ever hear of it is Thorin’s raven, requesting them to come fight two armies of Elves and Men. Yaaaay.
It’s often not mentioned that the vast VAST majority of all Dwarves – including those in the Blue Mountains – also refuse to accompany Thorin. In fact, it’s strongly suggested that Thorin is making this journey a secret, to avoid alerting the same forces that thwarted his father (who disappeared doing the exact same thing, after all).
But leaving the movie-changes aside, it’s worth looking at this exchange from the LOTR appendices:
When at last the battle was won the Dwarves that were left gathered in Azanulbizar. They took the head of Azog and thrust into its mouth the purse of small money, and then they set it on a stake. But no feast nor song was there that night; for their dead were beyond the count of grief. Barely half of their number, it is said, could still stand or had hope of healing. None the less in the morning Thrain stood before them. He had one eye blinded beyond cure, and he was halt with a leg-wound; but he said: ‘Good! We have the victory. Khazad-dum is ours!’ But they answered: ‘Durin’s Heir you may be, but even with one eye you should see clearer. We fought this war for vengeance, and vengeance we have taken. But it is not sweet. If this is victory, then our hands are too small to hold it.’ And those who were not of Durin’s Folk said also: ‘Khazad-dum was not our Fathers’ house. What is it to us, unless a hope of treasure? But now, if we must go without the rewards and the weregilds that are owed to us, the sooner we return to our own lands the better pleased we shall be.’ Then Thrain turned to Dain, and said: ‘But surely my own kin will not desert me?’ ‘No,’ said Dain. ‘You are the father of our Folk, and we have bled for you, and will again. But we will not enter Khazad-dum. You will not enter Khazad-dum. Only I have looked through the shadow of the Gate. Beyond the shadow it waits for you still: Durin’s Bane. The world must change and some other power than ours must come before Durin’s Folk walk again in Moria.’
So, it’s worth recalling that in this moment, Dain
has just lost his father, killed in front of his eyes
Just slew Azog.
saw something terrible through the doors of Khazad-dum
Is speaking to his King. He just shut his KING DOWN.
IS 32 YEARS OLD. THAT IS YOUNGER THAN I AM NOW. and he has more sense in his little toe than I do in my entire BODY.
5. They would be familiar with the people/s of Rhun
Check out the map. The Iron Hills are about as far East as you can get without being in Rhun already… in fact, they are closer to Rhun than they are to any point in Rhovanion. They’re the logical trade-route for anyone wishing to move between the Eastern nations and the West. I like to think that there is a huge and civil cultural exchange between the Iron Hills Dwarves and the Dwarves of the Orocarni, resulting in a melting-pot of customs and the flourishing of new ideas and music and art and technology.
I mean, the Dwarves of the Iron Hills would have already been a cultural blend of Longbeard, Firebeard and Broadbeam (fyi: Firebeards and Broadbeams both assimilated into Longbeard society in Khazad-dum, after their own cities were destroyed in the War of Wrath) … but only in that one place in all the world could you commonly find Dwarves of all seven clans living and sharing and trading and marrying harmoniously. I like that idea. I like it a lot.
this is also the reason why i cannot ever hc the Iron Hills Dwarves as racist.
6. They RIDE. PIGS.
‘Nuff said.
So thank you, dear nasty haternon.. I am now even more determined to love Iron Hills Dwarves, to love their darling fuzzy faces in spite of your clumsy attempt to get me all riled up 🙂 I am doubly inspired to write about their awesomeness and loyalty and loss in the face of such spite. Perhaps I shall write some more music!
In conclusion, the Iron Hills for Me.
(also also – Gigolas is the ship that literally sails itself into the West, so bleh to you with a cherry on top.)
I thought I’d take a while to address what I believe is the underlying cause for the frankly obscene amount of hatred directed at Dáin Ironfoot. Because I think it has absolutely nothing to do with Dáin himself and everything to do with the tone of the Hobbit.
I love the enrichment of dwarven culture we see in Hobbit fan culture in general. Tolkien really gave very little to the dwarves besides hints of their own language and mythology. None of this hair braiding culture or gender culture or even exploration of what astonishing engineers they must be given the places they choose to live (like inside mountains) (because technology = bad).
The movie gave us some expansion on it, the visions of Erebor and Dale, and their weapons, armor, and battle practices. But really, all the Khuzdul pet names, the politics, the cultural pride and visual coding for how they define themselves with braids and their own language, pride in their own history and reasonable suspicion of outsiders? Almost all of that is fanon extrapolated from both works and it’s really, really amazing how it developed within fanfic and fanart.
Least favorite (lol, which I wrote first and went off on a huge rant before I realize you asked for both):
I mean, I nitpick at times over little details of fanon which have no basis in Tolkien, and I’ve gone on at extreme length about DFP/abusive Thorin being so mind-bogglingly distant from both his book and movie character that I honestly can’t figure out where it originated except in Yaoi tropes and based on Thorin/Richard’s appearance.
But just to change it up a bit, I’d say: Shrinking violet Bilbo.
Aw Yiss 