(With my deepest apologies to Shakespeare and Dr. Seuss)
Can I kill my Uncle Claude? Yes, I can, I can, by God! I will kill my Uncle Claude!
Should I kill him in the house? Should I kill him while he’s soused? I could kill him here or there I could kill him anywhere Would I, could I, while he prays? Kill him! Kill him! Wherefore stay? I would not, could not, while he prays!
Not in the house, not when he’s soused, Not with his sister, now his spouse! Not while he prays, not while he feasts, O, incestuous, adulterate beast! I do not like my Uncle Claude, I do not like that bloody bawd!
Say! In the dark? Here in the dark! Would I, could I, in the dark?
Should I kill him in his bed? Should I there strike off his head? Kill him with his nightcap on? Kill him when the churchyards yawn? Should I kill him where he lies? I will kill him, by and by! I do not like my Uncle Claude, I’ll kill him, i’ th’ name of God!
The play! The play! The play’s the thing! The thing wherein I’ll catch the king! No more ‘to be or not to be,’ I will kill him, you will see!
Kill him while he wears his crown Kill him while his guard is down
Kill him with some poisoned wine Kill him with this sword of mine
O, is the point envenomed, too? I’m dead–Horatio, adieu! But tell them, tell them, more or less, Who it was that made this mess!
I did not like my Uncle Claude, I killed him in the name of God! Good friend, report my cause aright– And now, goodnight goodnight goodnight!
!!!! I wholeheartedly agree, Thorin does have PTSD. (I think @yubiwamonogatari wrote some about this while i was on my tumblr hiatus and i bet her opinions on the subject are very real and true.)
Even without “evidence” in the films, it’s very easy to reason that Thorin would have PTSD. Look at the traumatic life experiences he’s been through – the dragon attacks and takes Erebor when Thorin is only (i believe) 24 years old, which is practically childhood for Dwarves. Thorin fights in the bloodiest battle in Dwarven history when he’s in his early 50′s, loses his younger brother, his father, and his grandfather/king all in one day, and has to shoulder the burden of leading his people when he’s still so very young, barely of age to do so. And that’s only what we know about. These traumatic experiences are going to alter him and stay with him and change him, and he’s going to struggle to overcome negative feelings and fear for a long time.
Oh hey there! Am I assuming this is the anon that has been going around blog to blog but had yet to grace mine? Since you were mostly civil and not going for the usual condescending nonsense I see, I’ll answer legit for you.
I can’t speak for all of fandom of course, but I can at least tell you why I love Thorin Oakenshield. (Note that all this is talking about movie!verse Thorin, as that is largely what I base my character love off of)
Short answer is, he is complicated and overall good at heart, and that is generally my favorite kind of character.
Thorin is flawed, he’s temperamental, he’s driven and doesn’t always make the best decisions for his own health or in general. He isn’t satisfied with just letting things be or accepting things, as shown by his restlessness in the relatively thriving Ered Luin and his constant quests to go find his father, who everyone else has written off as dead.
He’s also someone with almost more heart than sense, in the end. He cares incredibly deeply. I love him for how much he cares about his home, about his family, how much he cares about his Company just because they swore loyalty to him, and how highly he regards that loyalty. He’s the sort who is obviously moved by their signing on with him, as shown with his conversation with Balin in Bag End. His main issue with Bilbo seems to be that he doesn’t think Bilbo can survive the quest, as he’s shown talking with Bilbo pretty easily once things are a little relaxed in Rivendell.
Thorin throws himself into danger for those he cares about, he is constantly seen yanking his Company members out of the way, pulling them along when they all start running, and even if he doesn’t like Bilbo, he still throws himself off a cliff to save him and then tells him to GO THE FUCK HOME BEFORE HE DIES. Not the best way to do it? Definitely. A bit harsh? Um. Yes. But A Bit Harsh is kind of how Thorin rolls, but harsh does not equal abusive.
I like him because I like complex characters. I like him for his gruff temper and bristly suspicious nature that he has that does not diminish or lessen how much he cares about things. I like him for the fact that sometimes I want to smack him upside the head with all of his going with his gut over his head in a lot of things.
I like him for the fact that despite all that, he can still see when he’s wrong, and doesn’t let his pride overcome it. He admits when he’s wrong and backs down! Multiple times! He gives Elrond the map when he realizes that yes, this is the best way to solve it’s puzzle. He nods and acknowledges that Gandalf was right in pointing out that Bilbo was the one who knew to stall with the trolls. As soon as he realizes Bilbo isn’t going to do anything like betray them or get himself killed, he admits he’s wrong, apologizes, and after that treats Bilbo like he’s one of them. He’s incredibly proud, but not so proud as to let it blind him (well…for most things at least lmao)
I like him because everything the dragon sickness turned him into just showed how NOT HIM it all was. The Company is worried about his rage, because he can usually keep it more in check. They worry about his suspicion, because he usually can be rational about it for most things. Bilbo’s horrified by his suspecting the company because it’s so NOT THORIN, the same guy who was proud of the loyalty they showed him and valued his word and honor above all else.
I like him because when he came through the sickness, when he came back. He did not say “It wasn’t me.” he did not say “I was just sick” which all would have been true. He took responsibility for his actions. He didn’t think he deserved loyalty and if no one ran out there with him he probably wouldn’t have held it against them in the slightest. He tries to make up for his extreme fuckups he did while sick, he is honestly surprised that Bilbo came back, his DYING WORDS are apologizing for what he did.
I love Thorin because Richard Armitage turned him into a cranky, grumpy dickweed who cares so fucking much about things that it looks like it physically pains him. If you don’t like him, then cool. Go on not liking him. I have a few tolkien friends who don’t like him. Know what we do? We talk about other stuff and are cool with the fact that we like things/characters that the other doesn’t like.
You don’t have to get it. And I don’t have to get you not liking him. It’s fandom. Let people like what they like.
Aw Yiss 