I get that people are looking for more fantasy with more diversity. I AM SORRY but Middle Earth is another world with their own races and they have their own developed…
Tag: racism
100% DONE
I get that people are looking for more fantasy with more diversity. I AM SORRY but Middle Earth is another world with their own races and they have their own developed history with racial problems with Elves, Dwarves, Men, Hobbits, the Dunadiain, Wizards, and Orcs. The universe itself was creating in Tolkien’s back in
1937. There were much different standards in that time. You wont find racial diverse Hobbits in most cases because Hobbits are their own race and have their own commings and goings. I’m sorry. It’s how Tolkien created it. Middle Earth itself is it’s whole other world that is not our own.
If you want to know more about the races in middle earth READ THE SILMARILLION!
You’re right, I’m 100% done too.
Done with you.
Because I dunno if you actually bothered to read The Silmarillion but like, NO WHERE IN THAT BOOK DOES IT DESCRIBE THE CHARACTERS SKIN COLOR. We could have elves of different races because gasp, there are different races of elves!!! Who is to say the Vanyar aren’t black after all.
And honestly there are brown hobbits (the harfoots) or did you fucking forgetting forget and where blinded by your racism. Fuck.
Also just because there were different standards in that time doesn’t mean that something wasn’t fucking racist jesus.
Dear God, I was really hoping to avoid this kind of discussion in my beloved fandom…
Vanyar, for what I know, were fair skinned and there were blondes among them. As for people, there were those who then betrayed Feanorians, and they were described as having darker skin.
But seriously – do we have to put real world’s racism into fictional world that had its own problems (AND, as it was pointed out, its own ways of racism)? What is wrong with accepting the book the way it is, even if it contains mostly sort of white characters? Or are you telling me that there is something wrong in feeling strong bond with character that has different skin color or different sex? Most of the characters I love are men, while I’m a woman, and I never felt it’s wrong.
As for Middle-Earth itself, I can imagine people with darker skn, those from East. But I cannot imagine black elves. And it’s not me being racist, it’s mostly looking where Tolkien got his inspirations. His elves come from celtic and nordic folklor, and seriously, how many Celts 1550 or so years ago were black/eastern? Tolkien got his inspirations from certain cultures, so it is quite understandable that the readers subconsciously (and I think correctly) see similarities between those two. If you read about Vikings, or when you read northen mythology, do you expect the gods to be black?
So much for not finidng hate in my fandom.
Look guys, I found another one.
*breathes in and out very slowly*
Right.
I have already covered my feelings on this turd of an argument. Enjoy.
(
(and it bears adding, too; Please realise that, by not recognising that you yourself are blindly headcanoning the whiteness of all characters, you are perpetuating the invisibility of white privilege. White is also a race. You have a race. You are also a member of a race. Congrats, race is not something that “does not apply” to you bc you are white.
Yes, as much as I love him and his work, Tolkien failed people of colour *70 years ago*. Well done pointing that out. Do you actually intend to perpetuate that failure?
You are ascribing a race and a corresponding skin colour to fictional people. Why can’t others do likewise? Why can’t you share?
The fact that you cannot imagine a black elf does not make you ‘correct’. It only displays the limitations of your imagination.)
From The Nib
[image descriptions: seven colour gif set of Michael Kimmel speaking in front of a chalkboard.
gif 1 says IN TEXT: Each Week, eleven women and me got together, we would read some text in feminist theory and talk about it. And during one of our meetings I witnessed a conversation between two women that changed everything for me. END TEXT.
gif 2 says IN TEXT: One of the women was white and one was black. The white woman said …, ‘All women have the same experience as women. All women face the same oppression as women and therefore all women have a kind of intuitive solidarity or sisterhood.’ END TEXT.
gif 3 says IN TEXT: And the black woman said, ‘I’m not so sure. Let me ask you a question-’ So the black woman says to the white woman, ‘When you wake up in the morning and you look in the mirror, what do you see?’ And the white woman said, ‘I see a woman.’ And the black woman said, ‘You see, that’s the problem for me, because when I wake up in the morning and when I look in the mirror,’ she said, ‘I see a black woman. To me race is visible, but to you race is invisible. You don’t see it.’ END TEXT.
gif 4 says IN TEXT: And then she said something really startling, she said, ‘That’s how privilege works. Privilege is invisible to those who have it.’ END TEXT.
gif 5 says IN TEXT: …Now remember, I was the only man in this room. So I heard this and I kind of just spontaneously groaned and put my head in my hand and someone said, ‘Well, what was THAT reaction??’ And I said, ‘Well when I wake up in the morning and I look in the mirror I see a human being.’ END TEXT.
gif 6 says IN TEXT: I’m kind of a generic person y’know, I’m a middle class, white, man. I have no [visible] class, no race, no gender. I’m universally generalizable. END TEXT.
gif 7 says IN TEXT: So I like to think that that was the moment that I became a[n aware] middle class, white, man. That class and race and gender weren’t about other people but they were about me and I had to start thinking about them and it had been privilege that head kept it invisible to me for so long. END TEXT. END DESCRIPTION.]
Deconstructing Masculinity & Manhood with Michael Kimmel @ Dartmouth College
Boom.
— From NYC.
“not every show needs queer characters”
well not every show needs 25 straight white carbon copies of the same characters from every other show ever aired in the history of television yet here we are with ten thousand of you on tv and one of me if I’m lucky
how dare you eat a feast, throw me a bone while I’m starving, and then tell me to be happy that I’m finally equal to you you spoiled entitled brat
100% DONE
tolkienfish: (snip for length)
Because we can have ethereally beautiful, immortal elves and fucking dragons and WALKING TALKING TREES but nope having some…
*steamed now* Oooooh, cross.
Right.
I am only going to address your words. I make no aspersions upon your character.
Reading the Silm does not, in fact, make you an expert. You are not the only person here who has read the Silm. In fact, most of us have – some of us? HUNDREDS of times (I stand in awe of them! how do you remember two+ names for every bloody elf omfg *waves at Silm fandom v v shyly*). Well done getting through it, it’s a chunky read. How did you go with Unfinished Tales? The War of the Ring? The Lost Tales? Children of Hurin?
OP, you are speaking exactly like someone who has never wanted for representation in their entire life. Has never wanted for a hero – or even a single character – that looked like and lived like them.
You have said “accept the story as it is.” So this is only for white people, that is what you are essentially saying. Only white people can see themselves in this excellent, beloved, famous story. It is not for others. Nobody else need apply. despite brown hobbits and dark Aragorn actually being canon
“write a better fantasy with all the cultural diversity today in a universe I would create.” = you do realise that black people existed in Tolkien’s day? So did queer people? Diversity did not spring up overnight like a mushroom after rain. He failed back then, much as I love him and his work. We can fix it.
Also, why the hell should people have to write another story? There’s one right there – an entire enormous and detailled and beloved and massive and gorgeous world! Why can’t they be part of it? Why the heck can’t you share? What does it hurt? Why are you so desperate to ensure that all these characters are portrayed as lily-white?
FYI: a brown-skinned character is not a stereotype simply by being a brown-skinned character. No more than a white character is a stereotype simply because they are white. That is not how stereotyping works.
I am also unsure whether you understand what ‘racial profiling’ means. You are not using it in a context that makes any sense at all.
“I don’t think races matter” – there’s a red flag. You may wish to watch that in future. That is the kind of thing said by people who perpetuate racism in ignorance: it is even a commonly accepted indication of internalised racism, in fact. Check Jane Elliot’s talk upon this. It is the sort of statement used by people who have never had their race matter. It’s basically “I don’t see colour!” in another form. Meaning, I don’t HAVE to. I am everywhere. I benefit from being the ‘default’ race. I am the norm. I am sitting at a banquet of characters and fantasy worlds that represent me – and I will begrudge people of difference for wanting a dish or two.
You may have used the phrase in ignorance. Congrats, I just told you, and now you know.
You are not oppressed by a drawing of a brown Hobbit or Elf. A brown Hobbit or Elf is no more a ‘stereotype’ than a white one. The white portrayals are freaking EVERYWHERE: they are THE DEFAULT. A brown or Asian one isn’t going to cause Dagor Dagorath. For goodness’ sake: share.
As a fellow whitey to another – please stop, please PLEASE stop prioritising ‘being correct’ over other people’s far more pressing need to be SEEN.
Why Is There Not More of This? Part 3
FEMALE CHILD CHARACTERS.
Why aren’t there more adorable little Dwarfling girls? Or Dwarflings that identify as girls? (because dain-mothafocka has written splendiferous Dwarf headcanons about gender and I just…
ARE YOU GONNA BE ON EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE tolkienfish ?
I dunno how exactly Smaug being the “last dragon” (what about the Withered Hearth?) has to do with this conversation at all, but oooookay.
And ‘super AU’? For wanting Hobbit girls that daydream about adventure? About Hobbits in general thinking of leaving the Shire?
So that makes the Hobbit and LotR super AUs, then? Huh.
This just in: Tooks are not Hobbits.
*raises eyebrows* Huh.
okay, I dislike getting into these sorts of arguments. But I would like to ask this person politely to stop pestering people for wanting to see themselves in Middle Earth, rather than yet another Standard Grim White Male Protagonist (tm – with optional manpain!!). The made-up fictional people in the made-up fictional world can be any colour. Yes, the dear professor likely didn’t intend for that, but unless you can ask him directly, please stop.
Yep, the vast vast majority of Hobbits stay at home, and frown on going out of the Shire. Guess what? It doesn’t stop their kids from listening avidly to Bilbo’s stories. Imagination is not limited by location, and that applies to little girl Hobbits too. Or perhaps they are not permitted to be imaginative and adventurous, bc reasons canon reasons blah?
(also, apparently the ‘remarkable’ Belladonna Took and her referenced but not detailed adventures are outliers and should not have been counted.)
Aaaaand you may wish to investigate this. And this. Smaug was not intended to be the last dragon. Only the last dragon with ‘fire hot enough’ (whatever that means). Finding both of those took ten seconds of googling, btw.
I have to mention as well – the Professor contradicted his own creation all the freakin’ time. Anyone who clings to the sword of ‘canon’ in Middle-Earth is gonna eventually come across a discrepancy. Beliiiiiieve me. (just look up Celeborn for a good example.)
Another person’s interpretation takes nothing from you. It is important to them. Don’t shoot it down. It appears uninformed at best; bigoted, racist and sexist at worst.
In the meanwhile, enjoy these canon descriptions of Aragorn (all from the chapter “From the Sign of the Prancing Pony”):
In those days no other Men had settled dwellings so far west, or within a hundred leagues of the Shire. But in the wild lands beyond Bree there were mysterious wanderers. The Bree-folk called them Rangers, and knew nothing of their origin. They were taller and darker than the Men of Bree and were believed to have strange powers of sight and hearing, and to understand the languages of beasts and birds.
(Gandalf’s letter delivered by Butterbur)
Dear Frodo,
Bad news has reached me here. I must go off at once. You had better leave Bag End soon, and get out of the Shire before the end of July at latest. I will return as soon as I can; and I will follow you, if I find that you are gone. Leave a message for me here, if you pass through Bree. You can trust the landlord (Butterbur). You may meet a friend of mine on the Road: a Man, lean, dark, tall, by some called Strider. He knows our business and will help you. Make for Rivendell. There I hope we may meet again. If I do not come, Elrond will advise you.
Yours in haste
GANDALF.
Frodo lay down again, but for a long while he could still see the white flashes, and against them the tall dark figure of Strider, standing silent and watchful. At last he passed into uneasy sleep.
photographer caught incredible photos at the Baltimore protests and they’ve gone viral.
Wow.
Hi! Sorry, but just wanna say I was just really happy to see you reblog the post that corrected that another person on their view on Finland. As a finn and as a person who loves history it was really nice that someone had corrected the false information. Bye! ps. have a good day :)
Ah, I’m really glad, Nonnie. I know it was a very aggressive rebuttal, but the information was sound, and it’s always a good thing to remind myself that oppression, colonialisation and even institutionalised prejudice does not always look the same in different areas of the world. As an Australian, it looks a very different way here, and our history and politics of racism and oppression do not universally translate. I am glad to know more about the world, about European and Scandinavian history, and about awesome Finland!
I hope you have a wonderful day too, Nonnie!
and we are still fighting over minimum wage
And america tries to act so high and mighty. America needs to sit down and learn a thing or two from these other countries.
YOUTH PARLIAMENT?! HECK YA!
I like the youth parliament idea, implemented at the local level. A youth county board, as it were. Give kids a say in their own community and they might actually be able to improve it.
I also think it might be an interesting idea for every school board to have a student representative, high school age.
Oh, I think I know the reason!
- Nearly everyone is white and everyone benefits from a history of colonialist exploitation
- Nearly everyone is white and everyone benefits from a history of colonialist exploitation
- Return to #1.
Plus they have a lot of refineries for Russian and Norse oil.
Literally these countries are SO white that they don’t even track the percentage of ethnic and racial minorities because the numbers are too small.
When you’re a monoculture it’s a hell of a lot easier to pretend your politics are about helping others, because everyone is like you.
I’m so tired of tumblr holding up Scandinavian countries as utopias.
Ex-fucking-cuse me.
“Nearly everyone is white and everyone benefits from a history of colonialist exploitation.”
Research wouldn’t hurt.
You might want to know that up until 1917, Finland was not a country of its own but fully under Russian rule. Before that, under Swedish rule. Before 1860, the year we were made mostly autonomous, we were basically a colony ourselves with no right to govern our own regions, collect our own taxes or have a say in Sweden’s or Russia’s politics. Our language and culture was looked down upon. The ethnically Finnish population was poor, oppressed and pretty much entirely without say in anything regarding our own country. Up until 1902 Finnish wasn’t even an official language in Finland, and even after that Russian was the official language of our parliament until we finally became independent.
And if you want some slavery and strife, of course there have been things like Isoviha: Russians invaded Finland (which belonged to Sweden at the time), slaughtered tons of Finns and shipped about 20 000 of us off to
become slaves. For contrast, our population was only 350 000 at the
time. The Swedes just sorta shrugged and went “Not our problem”, since, you know, we weren’t Swedes. Then Pikkuviha, another period of Russian invasion.
How about the first and second Sortokausi? Even the name means “era of oppression”. The Russians decided that Finland had it too well and started to forcefully suppress Finnish nationalist movements, shipping people off to Siberia, replacing Finnish officials with Russian ones, making Russian the only official language in Finland – basically trying to destroy the Finnish culture and fully integrate Finland into Russia.So I’d hardly say that we benefited from colonialist exploitation.
So yeah, sure, we’re white. But it doesn’t fucking matter because we never have lived in a country where whiteness was ever of any benefit. In Finland (and most of Europe anyways) being oppressed has always had everything to do with your ethnicity instead of the colour of your skin. We never had a single colony, we never invaded a single country, slavery has always been illegal here – even when we were a part of Russia where slavery was common. Sure, we have less than 1% of PoC – but please tell me why the fuck does that matter? It didn’t save us from being a god damn colony.
And of course I left out shit like the eradication of our native religion but hey, we’re white so it doesn’t matter anyway right?
It must be lovely to sit on your high horse there in the USA and think you know a single thing about the racial and/or cultural dynamics in Europe. Just because the crackers of your precious country fucked up doesn’t mean that you get the right to shit on minorities (population of Finland: 5 000 000. Contrast that with the USA) and ignore the rapid developement of Finland from pretty much nothing, a country 100% dependent on agriculture and wood, to one of the world’s most educated, most liberal, most egalitarian and most technologically advanced countries in less than 100 years. And all of this without benefiting from “third-world” countries or colonies, without wars or conquest, without aggressive foreign policies. Unlike the fucking USA.
Fuck you & do your research.
Aw Yiss 